Episode 5: Tips, Tricks and Tools to Build an Online Therapy Practice, with Jamie Howard
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Welcome to the online income for therapists podcast!
what this episode is all about
Jamie Howard is a Step by Step Course Graduate and has built a successful online therapy practice, specializing in supporting military families. Today she shares her tips, tricks, and pearls of wisdom for starting and growing an online therapy practice. Profanity and humor abound, so caution around the kiddos.
Want to Follow Along…
Welcome: (00:09)
Hey, hey my friends. Welcome. You're listening to the Online Income for Therapists Podcast and I'm your host, Amber Lyda. This podcast is all about building more freedom, flexibility, and flow into your lives by taking your passions and turning them into profitable online businesses, whether that's online therapy, online courses, consulting, coaching, ebooks, membership sites. We have got you covered. Today we have a really special thing going on. I've got graduates of my Step-by-Step course, the all the things guide to starting up your online therapy practice who are coming in to talk to you about some of the tips and tricks that they learned in starting their own online practice. And today we're featuring Jamie Howard. And she talks about how her process has been a little different than most folks who come into creating an online therapy practice in that she's actually looking to have a brick and mortar practice and she just couldn't bring herself to put out all the money that it takes to get one of those things started before she even had any clients. So, she started by building her online therapy practice as a vehicle to earn the money she needed to work her way into an in-person practice. And along the way, she found out that she'd like to have a practice with both. Listen in.
Introduction: (1:46)
Amber: I'm so glad you agreed to do this and so excited to talk with you and we've done a little catching up y'all, we're not going to lie, we were talking a little bit before we started recording, so I have some backstory y'all don't have, but we will share it with you.
Jaime: Absolutely.
Amber: So, we're gonna start like this. Okay, I want you to tell everybody where you started before the course. So, where were you? Like, what were you doing for work and then where you want to be and then we'll catch them up on where you are right now?
Jaime’s Private Practice journey: (2:14)
Jaime: Okay. So, I was and still am working full time doing behavioral health care management for a large government insurance company. And so, I enjoy that because that's part of the community that I'm a part of. But I was really missing direct care and working with these people every day made me realize like how important it is to provide, you know, good quality, direct care for people. So that kind of stirred like my passion back up. It had only been like maybe a year and a half or so since I really did direct care, but I really, really missed it. So, I started, it was about a year ago actually. I started really like thinking about it and my wheels started turning and I was like, Oh, but I don't mind you all that work. You know, I just, I just was like dreading the work part of it. And then like the this was kind of ironic, but the thought of having like to pay for an office space when I had no clients like made me want to hyperventilate. I thought, how in the world am I going to do this? Plus, I work full time and so how, how can I make this happen? And then that's when I start looking in more to online therapy stuff. And I think your course, how do we do it? We did some before Christmas, didn't we?
Amber: Yeah, we did.
Jaime: We started in November, wait, what did, I don't even know. You got it. You got it.
Step-by-Step Course: (3:31)
Amber: We started in November. We did four weeks. We took off for December and we started again in January.
Jaime: Okay. So it was, it was probably like October-ish timeframe last year that I was like, I really want to do this. And then I started and then I, I don't even remember how I came across your course, but I was like, you know what, if you're going to do something Jamie, like get your shit together and get some structure around it so you know what you're doing, inform yourself and like just do it. And I knew the course would be helpful because it would allow me to have some structure and guidance, but also accountability of like you spent money on this like this is a course for you and you've got to take this seriously kind of thing. And so, I thought that for me was really, really helpful. Plus, like just all the information, cause, of course, you know, I think your course is fabulous! And I really think like, honestly having gone through it, I'm like, this course should be like four times the price, like for real, because the amount of information that you get, but you don't know that even though people may be said that you don't really understand what that means until you go through it and you're like, Holy shit, this is a lot of stuff. Like Amber has put a ton of blood, sweat, and tears into this. And so that was really helpful for me. And then so in December last year, I came up finally with my name, did all that stuff with the state and everything and got incorporated and did all that. So, I feel like I really launched in like officially like January 1st. Having been in private practice before, I knew I just want to do everything right the first time. So then I like signed up with iTherapy cause I'm down with the package thing, and hired someone else to do my website because even though I know I can do it, I don't have the time with working full time. So, I was like, that's not happening. So those are my two big expenses in the beginning. It was the website and the iTherapy and that was it. You know, and even my ghetto computer, I have a ghetto computer that I'm like, you had to plug it in like the battery was like totally dead.
Amber: Yes!
Jaime: And then like it takes like 20 minutes. Like when you turn it on. Girl, I worked with the ghetto computer, I just got on your computer like Oh, month or so ago and a printer. So anyway, so I was like, I don't really need a bunch of stuff. I just need me. I just need, you know, the basics and my basics were fine. Even if they were a little broke down and busted, like with like, we'll see how this goes, you know.
Jaime’s First Client: (6:00)
Jaime: I didn't have a client until the end of February is when I got my first client. I went back and looked, I was looking this morning, so yeah, February 26 my first client was full fee cash. So I mean, you know, I do, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist and I have a license in addiction as well, and I have my master's in Ph.D. And with couple’s work, it's really easy to justify your fee because you're like, well, I know my fees are expensive, but it's a lot cheaper than a divorce.
Amber: Right
Jaime: So, they usually are like, they don't say anything after you say that.
Amber: Right
Jaime: So, my fee, my couple and family fee is $200 a session. And so I was fortunate enough to get my first people work, and I think they found me on Psychology Today, that's the only place that I've actually advertised or paid to join or to be listed. I don't think I'm listed on anything else. The iTherapy page, but that's it.
Jaime’s Goal: (6:54)
Jaime: Yeah, so my goal is reverse of what a lot of people are trying to do, which is I wanted an in-person practice. I moved, we live in San Antonio, my husband's retired military. We moved out to the country for about a year and a half ago. So, we're about 30 minutes out of downtown. We're not that far where the, at the beginning of Hill country and there's not a lot out here for mental health, but it's growing. Like schools are growing, there's no place else to go. So, it's really, really growing. And I saw this need and I thought I really would love to have an office someday. And so that was my vision was to start online to have low overhead and then to maybe someday find an office or need an office, like get to that point. And so yeah. So that's kind of what I kind of am doing the reverse where a lot of people like on the group or like I'm trying to get out of my in-person practice and all that kinda stuff. I'm like, I'm, maybe I'm a weirdo because I'm trying to get into an in-person practice. But I really want to offer both because I think both are really valuable. I mean, it's great to meet with somebody at eight o'clock at night after they've been at work all day and they're at home in their comfy clothes and they don't have to deal with traffic, and they can just be in their own safety net environment. You know, I really liked that and um, it's nice that I can do that too, you know, be at home and feed my kids and then run in and, you know, have a session or whatever. So, I definitely think there's a place for both options in mental health today. I totally, totally feel like it.
Amber: I love that your trajectory is like, I want to be in person or at least a combo, but I'm starting online because it makes more sense financially. It makes more sense to build up my caseload online, make sure that I have income and then sign up for rent. Super, super smart. So, tell us where you are right now.
Where Jaime’s at now: (8:36)
Jaime: So, I'm still working full time. That’s helped me feel better about some things, but I have to make a choice very soon. So yeah, I don't know. Amber: What’s your caseload right now outside of your full-time job, what's your online therapy caseload?
Jaime’s Current Client Caseload: (8:56)
Jaime: I have 13 clients, 12 or 13 active clients right now. I typically will see like on, I work Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, Sunday, which is the other thing that also kinda sucks. So, I'd see, I work all day, you know, eight to five typically at my other job, and then I have a six, seven or eight slots or just six and seven. Like I'm trying to just do two, but it's really hard cause I have kids, I have a 10-year-old and a four-year-old. So, it's, I feel like this is why I'm saying I'm a slightly like a crazy person. Right now.
Amber: Yeah! How are you breathing?
Jaime: I don't know. I am like, I don't know, because I feel like right now I'm sort of in that phase of I'm not working, I'm working harder, not smarter just yet, but I also feel like I had to do it this way so I can make the leap, you know financially and not have to worry about this other stuff, and, you know, I just, I just didn't want that pressure on me, I guess for some reason. And so I have like, I have three hours on Saturday, three hours on Sunday. I don't necessarily always see people every, you know, like every weekend I didn't see anybody on Sunday. You know, I have one person scheduled tonight. I could probably schedule some more, but I kind of don't want to because I am tired. But then I'm like, well, I can see a lot of the weekend, but I need to get, I need to do something on the weekend, which I'll explain in a minute. But, so that's why I don't really know how I sleep. So, I've got about six, seven, I have the 10 hours a week basically set aside for private practice clients and I have people I see every other week. So that's kind of, yeah, that's kind of helpful.
Current Rates and Insurance: (10:34)
Jaime: So out of my people, four of them are full fee cash clients. I am only taking one insurance company and I am at this point with them, I'm still, I'm…okay. so, it's, can I say who it is? Is it okay for me to say who it is?
Amber: Yes, but you can't say their rate? Probably because or your contract. So, either your rate or who they are.
Jaime: Okay. Well, I don't know their rates. So that the, I will explain this because it's different. So, it's with Tri-Care and so Tri-Care has like two things. If you're approved out of network, in order to still build for them, you still have to be what they call Tri-Care certified. You can see their people, there are two different insurance plans and so I can see the people that have the one with the out of network benefits. I can see those people without it, but they have to have a referral. So, I actually don't know their rates anyway cause I haven't built anything.
Amber: Okay.
Jaime: So, because it's been a kind of a nightmare and so I haven't fully I'm going to hopefully submit some claims like the end of this week. But yeah, so I'm kind of glad because I don't really know what the rates are. So, ignorance is bliss for me. I don't even like when you're not in-network provider, you don't have a contract with them, so I will still be billing at my rates basically at this point.
Amber: So, let me make sure I'm clear because if I'm confused, other people are confused. So, the way you're working with Tricare is out of network right now, and so what happens is a client pays you your fee and then the client may or may not get reimbursed by the insurance company. Is that correct?
Jaime: No. So, Tricare's weird and is completely different than any other insurance company because it is what is considered an entitlement. So, because it is a benefit of your employment basically. And so, everything that Tri-Care typically does is based on medical necessity. So, in order to be, it's not just like anybody's an out of network provider, you have to be registered with Tri-Care in order to be an out of network provider. So, like if you don't show up in your system at all, they're not going to pay you.
Amber: Okay.
Jaime: If you get certified, then you actually can bill like you bill them, then they pay you back. Tri-Care has pretty much basically two plans. One is called Select one, it's called Prime. Prime is like an HMO, Select is like a PPO. The people that have Select can go see out of network providers without needing prior permission.
Amber: Got it
Jaime: It's part of their benefit. So, anybody who has that plan, I can easily see. The other one, Prime, I can actually see them too, but they'll need to get a referral from there, what we call in the military community Primary care manager or PCP is what most people would call in order to see me with information as to why they need to see me. Why do you need to see an out of network person versus somebody who's in-network, which in some cases it's availability, it's specialization, that kind of thing? Again, the medical necessity piece, like if that's there. So, it's really confusing. I do have one lady though who I started seeing before I was ever, you know, approved out of network and she has it and I made the mistake of saying I would submit on her behalf. So, this is going to be a learning experience, so I'm going to submit for her and see what I can recover for her. But definitely, if I, if I’m in that situation again and I had it come up last week, I was like, nope, not doing it. Because it's a lot of work. Really difficult.
Amber: We live, that's how.
Jaime: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Some of Jaime’s current numbers: (14:14)
Jaime: So, yeah, so most of my people, I have what I wrote them down too, I even, I mean I might.
Amber: Yeah, give us some numbers if you have some numbers share those.
Jaime: I have numbers. Hold on. Okay, so what kinda numbers do you want? Okay.
Amber: I want all the numbers.
Jaime: Okay. So, I'll start up, okay, iTherapy $180 a month, except I got a discount because it did your class, so if you do Amber’s class, you get a discount for three months. So that, you know, that really takes a lot of pressure off. I mean that is first of all $180 a month for iTherapy to me is dirt cheap. Like all of the stuff, you cannot freaking believe. And I love it. I had my website professionally done. I think I paid about, I think it was like around between $1400 and $1,800, somewhere around there. And now I have them sort of manage it monthly for like a hundred dollars a month. And then my course, you know your course, and that was my startup. That was all I paid.
Amber: What's that total?
Jaime’s start-up costs: (15:10)
Jaime: So that total was about $2,500, maybe a little bit over $2,500.
Amber: Okay. So that's your start-up costs.
Jaime: What's what I invested. And then, cause I was saying earlier how I was like, I'd like to have in-person practice and I'm doing a little bit backwards than most people because I see the need and, and that sort of thing. I also work a lot with veterans and treat combat trauma. And so, I believe that veterans need other veterans to get better. And so like, and I do think in person is a big piece of their healing and their comradery and just what they're used to. But I do see several veteran’s telehealth, it's not an issue, but that's one of the reasons why I also wanted in-person.
Finding space to rent: (15:49)
Jaime: So, I was telling Amber earlier, I was like asking a friend because people want it in, you know, in person. So, I had a friend and I was like, “Hey, can I rent your space from you? Like on the weekends?”, and she's like, “yeah, well, you know, how many clients do you have?” I'm like, “I don't know, 12,13.” She's like, “what?” She's like, “Oh, Janie, I think you need your own office.” And I'm like, you think I do? She goes, “well, I started with zero clients and my goal first month was covered that damn rent, and I did, you know”, and I was like, “Oh, okay”. And she said, plus she's not in the part of town I want to be. And so, she said, people get really comfortable and they don't want to leave, and you want to get established out where you are, that's growing in an area that needs it. And it's like my community. So, I was like, Hmm, well I'll look, I'll see what's out there. So, I found a couple of places like I'm like two rooms, little boxes, like $1,400 a month. And I was like, this is crappy. And I really never saw myself in a stuffy office building. I was like, I just don't not feeling it. My people aren't going to be feeling it. They're not gonna like it either. So, I find this like little like tech thumbnail, tiny picture online and I'm like, what the hell is that? So, I click on it, it's a house, it's a cute little old house for rent for an office. And I'm like, and then I see it's like $1,100. I'm like, I don't know, this must be a mistake. This is not to beat a mistake. And so I call Mike is this place is still for rent?. Like what is going on? I need to see it today. Like I stopped the man, cause yeah, it was my birthday as a matter of fact.
Amber: Not uh, really?
Jaime: It was my birthday, which is kind of ironic cause the house we live in now, I found on my birthday too, two years ago and then I found this. So, I walk in, it's out in the country, it's on over an acre. It is a three-bedroom, three-bathroom house, beautiful deck off the back. Beautiful live Oak trees. Like really? And just like good energy, you know, feels good. You know as therapists, I got to feel, it just felt really good and Amber knows this, but one of my visions, so my daughter does horseback riding and we have a horse. It's kind of a parenting fail, but I'll save that. But, it's kind of a disaster. But anyway, he's a great horse. He's huge, giant horse, but like calm, mellow, just like a gentle giant. So I was like that would be so cool to have Solomon like be like my therapy, you know buddy, my emotional support therapy. Thanks. I don't want to do the whole certification thing. I just can't do that right now. So anyway, so I say to the like real start, I'm like, hey now this is fence zone over an acre. Like can I have, can I maybe have the horse here for something like therapy? And he's like, well you know the lady who owns the house, she lives right next door like literally like (inaudible). I could see her house right next to this one. He goes, she's an equine vet. And I'm like, she's so what are you kidding me? What are the freaking chances? And like you can't even see it cause it's so country, but like she has stables, she's got a donkey named Powderpuff, she's got three horses back there. Like I was like, like it was like the Gods, you know, God was like hitting me with a two by four, you know, like this is your space, you have got to do this. So, I like literally made this decision in less than a week sort of because I had been really thinking about it for a while, but…
Amber: This was your plan?
Jaime: This was my plan. And I thought, you know, how about a vote of confidence and the old pep talk from my friend who was like, Jamie, you have enough clients like you're, I was, I'm more than covering the rent already. So as that stupid, you know, so I'm like, okay, yeah and then I find this and I'm like, yeah, that is perfect. So, I signed a two-year lease and now I have me a little office and it's so cute and good thing that we hoard furniture in my house because I had a bunch of furniture to take over there. And then thank God for Wayfair, by the way, Wayfair professional, they have like, you can have like your own account manager and they can help you. And like I bought everything on sale so I didn't really get like another discount, but my account dude was like, hey, let me see if I can, let me see if I can get you some a little better deal. And he got me like another $93 off of my order had I not called him.
Amber: And you're going to write all that shit off too.
Jaime: I am. Yes, I am for sure. So, it really, I mean, and honestly, I've been really happy with the quality of stuff I've received so far. And I mean like very inexpensive. I have spent twice spent a little over $2,800 that is including tax and that is for like three offices and like a reception area. And like I said, I had some stuff already, but I mean I really feel like that's not that bad. Right.
Amber: No. Know it's not.
Current Costs: (20:31)
Jaime: So now my costs are a little higher. Now we're looking at, let's just say with utilities, $1300 a month for my rent, so $250 a month if I wanted to average out how much I pay for my insurance. But you have to get business insurance when you have a physical space, you know, that was only $480 bucks a year, which I thought was cheap, that's $40 bucks a month. So that is like, let's just say, you know, $1,800 a month rounding up, although I need to add my iTherapy in there. So, two grand, let's just say two grand. That's going to be probably my expenses for the month. But even if my average is like a hundred dollars a session and I have 12 or 13 clients, you know, but that's okay. You know, because I want people are, I'm getting paid more for some of them I'm getting paid less for some of them and I have to open up my schedule in order to grow, which means I have to leave my full time job.
Amber: Yes, mam.
Jaime: So, I'm mentally working on doing that. I wanted to pay for this furniture first, and just kind of like to see how some things go.
Amber: Yeah, we may need to do a little coaching session around that.
Jaime: I mean, honestly, I was telling Amber like where I work, there had been some cutbacks earlier this year and stuff and one of the reasons I have wonderful coworkers and stuff and so one of the reasons is I was kind of concerned that they might like cut back some more. And so, I was like actually trying to absorb that and like let them fire me basically so that somebody else didn't lose their job. I did look at some things like I inquired about cutting back my hours to adjusted full time for each hour, which they agreed to do except I have to maintain the same workload. So, they weren't going to adjust that. So, I was kinda like, Hmm, that's not cool.
Amber: That's not cool.
Jaime: Yeah. So that kind of was like, okay, you can, and then I would accrue less time off because of my percentage of hours. So, I didn't think that that was a good idea. And then I, when I asked about leaving, and I think this might be what really has helped me up is that they said that they wouldn't backfill my position. So that means that my coworkers that I adore would have to absorb my workload and I am very uncomfortable with that. I don't know, maybe I know I need to move past that, but you know, I just think that's crappy.
Amber: It is crappy. It is crappy and you carrying it doesn't fix the underlying issue, right? Because, and this is something I had to learn as well when I left my agency, I was going to leave a huge hole where a lot of work had been getting done and I knew that that system was not going to change for the better anytime soon. So that, that we hired and hired and hired and hired and then we had over turnover, turnover, turnover. So, after years of that, I had to finally get real with myself of like, okay, there's not going to be a good time for me to leave. This is going to hurt my agency when I leave.
Jaime: It’s like getting married or having children. It's never a good time, but right too. I think my vision was when I started, let me, I know it takes like a year, I mean it really does. I feel like it takes a year to get into your groove.
Amber: Agree.
Jaime: And so, I, so I figured by the end of this year that I would no longer be there. And so, part of me feels like, you know, right before Thanksgiving would probably be good because then kids are off school and breaks and stuff like that. I feel like that might be a good time for me to exit. And it gives me a couple more months of, you know, saving a little bit more money and just, and it's really mental for me because I'm very fortunate that my husband is retired and he has a job too, so he has his retirement money and he has income, so I'm not, I, we're still going to have food on the table even if I leave my job, you know, so I just have to remember that. That it's more of like just me personal stuff point. But I'm working on it and I know that by the end of the year I'll be gone for, you know.
Amber: It sounds like, or just coaching a tiny bit and then we're gonna jump right back up. It sounds like two stuck points, one being with not wanting to burden or people that you care about at your job. But the other one is this idea that I need to gather some money to pay off. You know, because first, it was, I don't want to start up a face to face practice until I have the money and then it's, I don't want to leave my current full-time job until I have the money to pay off this debt. And the reality is that you have brought in a lot of clients to your therapy practice and you've brought them, some of them in at full fee, so there's no reason to think that you won't make me more than your average our, your average hourly salary just like picking up clients.
Jaime: Yep, absolutely. And that's, it's kind of funny because I realized that like when I, when I really went down and crunch the numbers and I was like, you know, I could work like way less and make the same amount of money that I make now, which I feel like is probably a good goal for me to have once I leave is like just make what you were making before. That's what my goal is.
Cash Pay Clients: (25:39)
Jaime: And by the way, speaking of numbers, so I wrote down that most of my clients that I've had honestly have been cash. So, like I said, first client, first date of session was February 26. So, from February 26 till now, it has been $10,182.
Amber: Wow. Get it. So, this is all on the side.
Jaime: Yeah. But I, after I went back and looked at was like, Oh, that's bad, right? I mean.
Amber: Uh, no, that's not bad.
Jaime: Is that okay? I mean like, I don't even know. I feel like it's, okay.
Amber’s number her first year: (26:13)
Amber: So, here's some of my numbers. My first year that I was doing online therapy I did it part-time like you are, outside of my full-time job. But I never took more than five hours a week of clients cause I just don't have the resiliency that you do, But in that year. I made $22,000 on the side. Like it was just bonus income and I wasn't sticking to my rates at the time, so I slide my sale all over the place and still just doing up to five hours a week was able to make $22,000. And you've been able to make 10,000 since freakin end of February, so say beginning of March.
Jaime: Yeah.
Social Media: (26:53)
Amber: When you first started publishing on your, your Facebook page and your Facebook business page, I can't remember where you published it, but you have put in stuff about your website showed up there, and your website was amazing, and it's all military-focused, and your messaging and copy was so clear and clearly spoke to your ideal client that I was sharing it everywhere because I'm like, Oh I know that my people, my friends, and family will relate to what she's saying and they're going to follow. So, I guess A, how did you get so good at what you were putting out there on social media? And then the question I'll ask you later is how do clients come to see you? How have you gotten almost to 15 clients?
Jaime’s Website: (27:35)
Jaime: So the copy on my website, I really can't take credit for because Nick Fuller and the fabulous people at Shire Digital Solutions did my website and they have really great questionnaires and like Nick just gets me, I'm like “Nick, you know, I'm such a mess”. Like, but I'm, I'm just, I'm very honest. Like I how I am as a therapist is how I am if you saw me at the grocery store. I don't believe in being different with my clients than anybody else, cause I think genuineness is very key in mental health. And so, I'm just, and I don't know how to be any different. And honest.
Amber: I love it. Be yourself out loud. That's all it really takes. So, let's transition into talking about how you got those clients.
How Jaime Got Her Clients: (28:19)
Jaime: So, I have a Psychology Today profile. I would say that's, that's where some people have found me maybe four or five. And then I have two contacts, to local contacts. One is a guy who runs a nonprofit for veterans. So very key. And the other one at my full-time job is my boss's boss and he lives where I live cause we all get to work at home in our jobs. Well, he lives in the same city as me and he's prior military, so we have like a connection. And he knows a lot of people who come to him for advice and help, but he really can't help them because he's friends with them. He sends me people all the time. So, I feel like having those two key people that are connected to my niche population.
Amber: Yep.
Jaime: Has been really powerful. And then the other thing is, even the beginning, I'm like, I just have one. I had one couple, that's why I started with. You know what? Provide good care. Take good care of the one person that you have because they will tell other people about you. Number one it's the right thing to do. But number two, word of mouth is way more powerful. And so, I think just being like a human being.
Amber: Yes.
Jaime: Okay. Genuinely just caring about other people and wanting and being their advocate and their cheerleader and their support system. Like I think that's important. And I think people can see that when you, when are genuine and you do that versus you feel forced and you're doing that, you know? K
Amber: 100%
Jaime: And I always tell people, if you don't like your therapist and they, you feel like they're looking at you like you have two heads, say bye-bye.
Amber: Yep.
Jaime: Because they're not the right person for you. You should not feel that way. You need to be connected to your therapist. And I'm very honest and I say, look, I will if I feel like maybe you remind me of somebody of my past that I didn't get along with or something like, my goal is for you to get the care you need. And if it's not with me, I'm gonna make sure I find out who it's with. I'll get you with somebody else and don't feel like you're going to hurt my feelings because I know the research says this is the most important thing.
Being Authentic: (30:18)
Amber: Everybody hit pause, hit rewind, listen to that last six minutes or so, one more time and take some notes. Because everything you've said there is the crucial piece of building your practice, kick ass at what you do and do it authentically and with compassion. Do it out loud on your website. Do it in your sessions. Do it when you're talking to potential referral folks who are, you know, connected to your ideal client or even those who aren't, and your practice is gonna fill.
Jaime: Yep, absolutely. I feel like just be good. Just be a good human, like just, you know, just be kind, just genuinely care about people. Like, I don't know, don't be an ass like, you know, don't expect your clients to conform to you and conform to what their needs are. You know? I think that's really important. And for me too, like I haven't, I haven't had time to spend like networking honestly and marketing like out in the community. Like I would like to but I'm like, golly. And I didn't even, so there's a funny thing about that, that house office deal, I didn't even realize I just built a new middle school half a mile from there and they're building a high school, like right there. I'm like, I need to know that. I mean, I was like, Oh yeah. So, I mean like, I feel like there, there's lots of places and potential. Even my daughter's daycare, my little one goes to daycare. I talked to them about stuff and they like, they have my cards there now because they had some issues with some kiddos, they didn't know what to do, they needed a resource and so, hello, I'm your resource. You know like I made that connection like last weekend took my cards. I mean that was a quick networking thing, but I have put no, I've put no effort into networking.
Amber: I have the most bizarre analogy coming to mind, but I'm going to bring it, I'm bringing it, I'm not sure it’s going to make some sense. When I was in a longterm relationship, nobody ever hit on me. I think I just put out a vibe of like, don't fucking, sorry, don't talk to me, don't talk to me. When we broke up and I was single about two months after being single, all of a sudden people started hitting on me and they were just extra friendly or they were straight-up asking me out or like giving me extra produce at Publix, it was weird. But I think what happened, I swear I'm going to bring this back home y'all. I think what happened is I was walking out into the world with an open stance. I was saying hello to people. I was smiling at people. I wasn't closed off. And if you just choose two days out of the week when you're going out into the public world, but you're going to go out intentionally open, you're going to smile, you're going to engage with the cashier at Publix or wherever you're grocery store is, you're going to, you know, walk through Home Depot and like make conversation with the person next to you. You're going to sit at the bar to eat rather than a table and you're going to chat up people around you. If you just open up a little bit, I think that everything else falls in place. And just two days a week, I'm an introvert I can't be doing that all the time, but a couple days a week. Open up your heart and show that on your face. And I think the rest follows.
Jaime: I think so too. I really do. And I feel like, I mean, I, of course, I believe like, you know, I'm, I'm like a spiritual person too, so I feel like, you know, God, because here's the thing, I did not want to do private practice because I've been there before and I know how much work it is. Okay. So, I have been like for years, like Nope, Nope, Nope. But I kept feeling like God kept putting it on my heart. I'm like, would you stop with that on my heart? I just don't want it there or just get away from, cause I just, I knew what I needed to do and I, I didn't want to do the work. I just really didn't. But then it was like funny like somehow it shifted from like being put on my heart to starting to morph into a passion. And so, I was like, this is really weird. And like, even now I'm like, I'd rather just be doing stuff for my practice. Like I'm really losing like a lot of my gumption for my full-time job. I'm losing a lot of so I'm just like fizzling that out. But I feel like my passion for, you know, my practice has just really continued to grow. And it's just crazy to me like how I find an office, that's exactly what I think my ideal client would be comfortable with and I can have a horse there and the lady next door is the vet for horses. I'm like, okay God, thank you for hitting me with a two by four. I got the memo; I'm signing the lease. Okay. And then I'm like, Holy shit, what did I just do? You know? But oh well I'm doing it. Like I'm just going to do it. Like there's not an option to fail. Like it's just not, it's not an option. And it's not gonna happen.
Amber: The failure is not doing it, the failure is not trying, the failure is the regret of living the life when you didn't take chances that were lined up perfectly for you.
Another cost: (35:01)
Jaime: Absolutely. I totally agree. So, I forgot to say one of the other costs I spent on was I ordered business cards finally. I just ordered business cards. And I needed to sign for my office because it's on like a state highway and it's like by houses and there's like really no, it's hard to like you just drive right past it.
Amber: Right.
Jaime: So, I ordered a sign, I hope it doesn't look tacky and stupid, but I got like a vinyl sign that I can put on the fence cause it's gated and even has like a gate. So, I got, you know, that was $103.00 on Vista print. And I know this sounds really cheesy, I don't know what y'all think about this, but I was like I just did it because it was, it's temporary but I ordered these car magnets. Is that cheesy? I feel like a cheesy ass realtor. So, I ordered two of those or $24 apiece, $48 for some car magnets and some more business cards, cause now I have business cards I needed to address cause now I have an address.
Amber: Right.
Jaime: So, I spent like $200 on that stuff from Vista print and I feel like that's good. I ordered like 200 cards, I didn't order a lot, I ordered just enough and some little like postcard thingies.
Amber: I love those.
Jaime: So, I'm just like, I'm not going to spend a ton on it, but I need to do a little something and just get started. Yeah, just see what happens.
Amber: I, you’re going to have to take pictures of that house and put them up in the group so we can look at it.
Jaime: I am going to, it's super cute and it's coming along. It's a lot of manual labor, which is kind of the problem because now I'm supposed to see clients on the weekend and like last weekend I was like, one of the offices you guys had paneling in it.
Amber: (laughing)
Jaime: Paneling! Okay. I was like hell to the, no, this is going. So I decided, I think I'm crafty but I swear to you all, I got a DNR one time. Amy Sloan chalk paint you can make anything gorgeous with Amy Sloan chalk paint, you don't need to, you don't have to sand, you don't have to prime, you don't have to do they, I didn't even wipe the walls down. I slapped some (inaudible) chalk paint on that crappy stuff and then I'll put a coat of wax over top of it. I'm telling you it looks like a whole new room. It's the playroom. And so, I'm like, I will show you guys some pictures or do a video walkthrough or something like that. I think it's going to be cute.
Amber: We're going to a before and after.
Jaime: So yes, I have said before yes. Cause like cause the marketing from like when it was for rent. So, I have some of the befores, some of those hideous. But yeah, it's super cute. I think it's going to be super cute. We'll see.
How has this interview been for her and others: (37:22)?
Amber: I'm so excited for you, you’re kicking ass!
Jaime: Thank you! I’m so excited.
Amber: These interviews if I never published them anywhere have been so helpful just to get to know each of you even more and like see what you’re doing. It's almost like a, a positive feedback loop. Like it just
Jaime: Yeah
Amber: You're wanting to move forward.
Jaime: Absolutely. I think it's very cool. I think it was a great idea to like to see where people are cause it's like where I was when I started where I am now was like to, I was like, oh wait till I tell Amber I got an office. You know what I mean? Like things are just like, I thought I would do that, but I really thought the office thing would be like way down the road, like way, way down the road. But then I was just like, you know what? Forget it. Like, jump in with both feet and if you jump in with both feet, you know you're going to do it, you're going to do what needs to get done. But you know what I mean. Like you're going to hustle, you gotta hustle to pay bills and put food on the table, you're going to hustle, you're going to do that. You know, you're gonna make that happen. But you know you are. At least you have to fake it till you make it. Just pretend that shit if you need to, but like you gotta go after it, you know, cause you know what people, no one's going off. This is what I realized. So the company that I'm at now, it's a very good company, but about a year ago I thought I would be someplace I would be for a long time and about a year ago some stuff went down and I was like, there's no opportunity for growth here. And honestly, what I thought was if I can't find my ideal dream position, I'm going to create it myself. And I realized that I didn't need somebody else to hire me to value me. I needed to value me, and I need to hire me and say you can do this. You can make a difference and try to have the confidence even if it was a fake it till you make it thing for a little while. But I was like, you know what? This is a good thing because now I'm kind of forcing the opportunity to say I know my value and I'm not going to stay stuck in a system that is not going to appreciate my value.
Amber: Yup.
Jaime: So un-uh not happening. So I just decided to create my own ideal job and that's what I have done.
Amber: Ah, I wish I could high five and hug you. I love it.
Jaime: (laughing)
Amber: That is, that is like my dream for what will come out of these interviews from the course and just from getting to know you guys more and more. If there's any little part and piece of wisdom. I don't know what else you could offer because you were just (inaudible), but
Jaime: Oh, my goodness. Thank you. I know. I'm golly, what could I say? What do you feel like you see most people struggle with I guess like where they're stuck?
Where do people get stuck? (39.45)
Amber: Yeah. So, a couple of places. One is the just freaking starting this, you know, people are like, this is what I'm going to do, so I'm going to do in five years I’m gonna do it. But they just need to jump in, as you said, with both feet and go. There's never going to be a right time.
Jaime: Right.
Amber: The other piece is once they get going coasting before they should. So, okay, I've set everything up, but they're not going hard after marketing. And then six months later, you know, they're like, shit, I still don't have any clients. I guess it's not working. And I feel like, no, no, no, come back and talk to us. It will work. We just (inaudible) doing the things that are going to make it work. And the other parts painful to watch.
Jaime: Yeah, it is hard. And I think too, like I said if you can have, you know, if you specialize in eating disorders than go to an eating disorders clinic that's in your area and introduce yourself and be like, “Hey!, you know what I mean? Like I think that there still is something for good old fashion, putting a face with a name and connecting with just people and relationships. And so I really think that that's still very powerful to do. You know, and I know some people who are introverts, I think especially have a really hard time with that. But it doesn't have to be like, you know, you're not doing like a dinner theater show, you know what I mean? Like you are talking about something that you feel very passionate about. So hopefully, you know, just some little things like that or I saw a girl recently who was, I think she's not licensed yet, but in my area offering like a free little workshop at the library. Like it doesn't have to cost anything, I think. But I think for me like I said, I paid for Psychology Today. And I just think having those two key people has been really helpful for me.
Amber: Great.
Setting Goals: (41:34)
Jaime: Actually, to like, I do better with goals, so if I get, cause if I'm like, I'm going to do it later, later, later. I have to have a timeline, or I will not get stuff done. So, I would say even if you say, okay, how much time do I have to devote to building my practice now? You know, and if it's like two hours a week, then like if it's like from, you know, you know, three to five every Sunday, then I would say from make that sacred time and use those two hours and do what you need to do and research what you need to or whatever to work on it. But if you give yourself structure and you have a vision for where you want to be, you got to figure out how you're going to get there and nobody's going to get you there for you. So you got to get up. You got to believe in yourself because if you don't believe in yourself, nobody else is gonna believe in you. So like I said, fake it till you make it., just tell yourself that. And you know, you'll get to that endpoint. But you have to, you have to do the work. And that's the thing is I think people want, they want a quick fix, they want everything to be easy. Our society is very instant gratification. Being a therapist is you is about building connections and sort of putting down roots in a sense. But I think, you know, we can also put down virtual roots and again, having friends, having other, you know, they, they have friends that need therapy, they're going to tell their friends about you, like you know, and so I think that that's what's really important. Don't stress about how many people you have or don't have just to pay good attention to the people in front of you. Because if you're not providing good care, then it's not gonna matter. So don't let yourself get distracted because of what your passion is as being a therapist, then that's really what you want to, you know, focus your efforts and energy on and the other stuff will follow as long as you give yourself some structure to make sure that you achieve it.
Amber: 100% agree. 100% there's so many pieces of very important wisdom in that. So slow-mo, you guys. Rewind in slow-mo, take very good care of the people that you already have, including collaborating on their care with their other providers and doing a kick-ass job doing that. You're gonna get referrals from your client and you're going get referrals from those providers. Be a very good human out loud. And introverts, I feel yet just two days a week we have very good human out loud.
Jaime: Exactly. Put that silly magnet thing on your car. It's $24. Just put it on your car two days a week.
Amber: Yep. And be nice, be extra nice. Those two days.
Jaime: And make sure you look good on those days. You know, don't look like, like, like I live like a troll animal and I live under a bridge. Cause some days I look like that, you know, so I have to remember I can't be doing that. You know, on that day when I get out of my car.
Amber: When you’re about to do an errand at Walmart, you forget the magnets on your car and you’re like “shit”
Jaime: I'll be like yelling at my kids, “get your ass in this car right now!” “Come see me for therapy. Yes, I'm great.
Amber: I help families get their shit together. Oh my God,
Wrap-up with Jaime: (44:32)
Amber: Woman, this has been so helpful. I'm so glad that you were willing to do this.
Jaime: Yes.
Amber: Awesome.
Jaime: Really excited because I loved your course. I think it was a great thing to catapult me into what I needed to be doing and it gave me that motivation, that structure that I really needed, and I really feel like it was so invaluable. Like one of the best investments that I've made is, you know, started that course. It's like bam, hit the hit the ground running. I mean, and honestly, I didn't even finish everything. And then I think I still have some lessons and then I saw how you like added some lessons and I was like “shit, I've got so much more to go in there and do!”, but I also think it's genius of how it's lifetime access. I think that that is so fabulous and so easy to be like this is totally worth it. And it's in telehealth, stuff is going to be changing because it's still evolving so much. So, I could definitely see where that is going to be helpful to always be sort of like, you know, on the forefront of, and hopefully, everything kinda catches up to.
Amber: Don't you forget that you can join our coaching calls in November and January.
Jaime: Yes
Amber: I would love to see you back in there.
Jaime: Yes, absolutely. I would love to!
Amber: Thank you
Jaime: Thank you for thinking of me and reaching out and hopefully something I've said, maybe it will help at least one other person and if it does, then that makes it worth it.
Conclusion with Amber: (45:48)
Amber: Oh my gosh, wasn't that fantastic? Thank you so much to Jamie for coming in and sharing all the tips and tricks and tools that you've picked up over time to build your online therapy practice and the momentum into building your in-person practice. That is so nice of you to take the time to share all of the tips and tricks and tools that you learned along the way with the rest of our therapist community. So, appreciate it. And I hope all of you have gotten a lot out of the interview. I know that there were tons and tons of pieces of wisdom in there. We're going to try to get this transcribed for you so that we can pull all of them out and you can revisit them when you have some time to look over what I'm going to call a lecture on building an on online practice.
Step-by-Step Course: (46:41)
Amber: Hey, and if you're listening to this podcast as it's being released, you still have time to jump into Step-by-Step. The next live round of the course that Jamie talked about in this podcast. So, you can jump into the show notes and click the link there to learn more. Or you can go into the Online Therapist Group, click on the banner photo at the top of the page, and you'll get links to all the goodies.
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